The Apologetics Podcast

Resurrection-Centered Apologetics, with Timothy Paul Jones and Garrick Bailey

This episode begins with the infancy of Jesus and ends with his resurrection.
Garrick brings up the infancy of Jesus in the Raiders of Church History segment in the most awkward of ways. This episode is the first—and hopefully the last—time that "lactation" has ever been mentioned on The Apologetics Podcast. Timothy brings the battle to a premature end by hitting Garrick in the head with the Lindisfarne Gospels.
Your intrepid cohosts quickly forgive one another, however, and move on to make three key points about what apologetics is. This episode is the first in the two-part series about what apologetics is and how to do apologetics well. Here are the three main points in this episode:
(1) Apologetics is a defense that includes evidence.(2) Apologetics calls for holiness.(3) Apologetics is centered in the hope of the resurrection.
As Garrick and Timothy unpack these three points, Billy Joel shows up to defend the Christians wrongly accused of burning Rome in A.D. 64, and Pink Floyd and Brian May prove Augustine of Hippo right about the resurrection of Jesus. The Karate Kid shows up too, but the dynamic duo isn’t quite sure why. It has something to do with the Papyrus font, and ”Päpÿrüs” would be a perfect name for a heavy metal band that translates its lyrics from fragments of ancient papyri.
ABOUT YOUR HOSTS
Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy.
Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison.
LINKS TO CLICK
The Apologist (R.E.M., 1998)
We Didn't Start the Fire (Billy Joel, 1989)
The Karate Kid (The Karate Kid, 1984)
Coming Back to Life (Pink Floyd, 1994)
Resurrection (Brian May, 1992)
Patreon Support
TheApologeticsPodcast.com
Urban Ministry Podcast
CLOSING CREDITS
Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

How to Know God Exists, with Josh McDowell

If they made apologetics action figures, Josh McDowell would be one of the figures in the first set. If they made apologetics trading cards, Josh McDowell’s card would be in a collectible foil pack. He has toured with the pioneering Christian rock band Petra, and his book Evidence that Demands a Verdict was selected by Christianity Today as the thirteenth most influential Christian book published after the Second World War. Now, he’s here with us on this very special episode of The Apologetics Podcast.
In 1991, "Losing My Religion" by R.E.M. was at the top of the pop charts, and Timothy was looking for evidence that Christianity was true. That's when two books that Timothy found in a library introduced him to apologetics. Those books were Surprised by Joy by C.S. Lewis and More Than a Carpenter by Josh McDowell. More than thirty years after Timothy first read More Than a Carpenter, Josh McDowell joins the dynamic duo to discuss his latest book How to Know God Exists: Solid Reasons to Believe in God, Discover Truth, and Find Meaning in Your Life (Tyndale, 2022). Josh also takes the time to reminisce about some of the ways that apologetics has shifted throughout his six decades of ministry. Along the way, he tells about his time touring with the Christian hard rock band Petra.
In the segment of the program known as Raiders of Church History, it's a medieval mammal against ancient metal in a contest so violent that you may want to cover your children’s eyes while they’re listening. The violence breaks out because your intrepid cohosts throw a resurrected lamb into combat against a set of ancient spikes. The contest culminates with a Mediterranean feast, complete with trout and mutton shish-kebabs. Also, “Spïkëd Lämb” would be an amazing name for a death metal band.
ABOUT YOUR HOSTS AND GUEST
Josh McDowell is a Christian apologist, evangelist, and author. After studying at Kellogg College he completed his college degree at Wheaton College and then attended Talbot Theological Seminary. In 1961 he joined the staff of Campus Crusade for Christ International and shortly after he started the Josh McDowell Ministry. Of his numerous books, his best known titles are More Than A Carpenter, Evidence That Demands A Verdict, and Right from Wrong. More information can be found at his website here.
Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?
Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison.
LINKS TO CLICK
More Than A Carpenter (Josh McDowell, 2009)
Creed (Petra, 1990)
How to Know God Exists (Josh McDowell, 2022)
Beyond Evolution (Anthony O'Hear, 1997)
Evidence That Demands A Verdict (Josh McDowell, 2017)
Patreon Support
TheApologeticsPodcast.com
Urban Ministry Podcast
CLOSING CREDITS
Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).
If anyone listening to this episode has questions about Josh McDowell's 2021 statements related to racial issues in the United States, you are encouraged to to read his apology and to watch this well-balanced video from Apologetics 315:
"A Statement from Josh McDowell"
"A Response to Josh McDowell's Recent Statements." 
 

Apatheism, Mormonism, and Theological Shoegazing, with Kyle Beshears

Welcome to the Apathetic Episode of The Apologetics Podcast! An episode focused on apathy probably seems appropriate to all of you who have noticed how apathetic Garrick and Timothy have been about releasing new episodes for the past few months. But that wasn’t actually due to anyone’s apathy! It was because Timothy needed to finish writing a new apologetics book entitled In Church as It Is in Heaven, which InterVarsity Press will release in June 2023. 
Now that the book manuscript is in the publisher’s hands, the Apologetics Podcast is back and better and more apathetic than ever! Despite this exciting return of new episodes, the dynamic duo refuses to get excited. This is, after all, the Apathetic Episode, which requires them to remain apathetic. This episode’s installment of the Raiders of Church History begins with a piece of fruit. In a moment so apathetic that it’s almost pathetic, Timothy tosses his pear at a dead head, resulting in a dull draw that makes staring at sleeping rocks seem exciting.
The apathy continues when Kyle Beshears reveals that his favorite rock group is Starflyer 59, a shoegaze band that barely qualifies as a rock band at all and happens to be the undisputed master of maudlin and apathetic music, though perhaps they wouldn’t have been so apathetic if they had added umlauts to their name. But Starflyer 59—or, as they’re known in a less apathetic parallel universe, “Stärflÿër 59”—is far from the most apathetic aspect of this Apathetic Episode because there is only one person in the universe more passionately committed to apathy than Garrick and Timothy, and that's Kyle Beshears. The topic of their discussion is “apatheism,” a term that theology professor Robert Nash coined in 2001 to describe people so apathetic that they don’t care whether or not God exists. Garrick and Kyle momentarily threaten the apathy of this episode when they begin talking about Mormonism and start to become almost excited. That’s when Timothy bravely but apathetically intervenes to restore the high levels of apathy for which this episode is destined to become famous.
ABOUT YOUR HOSTS
Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy.
Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison.
LINKS TO CLICK
St. Augustine's Pears (Petra, 1998)
Ya Right (Starflyer 59, 2021)
When You Feel Miserable (Starflyer 59, 1995)
Kyle Beshears
Apatheism (Beshears, 2021)
Patreon Support
theapologeticspodcast.com
Urban Ministry Podcast
CLOSING CREDITS
Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

Huey Lewis and the News: The Holy Trinity and “The Power of Love”

Garrick Bailey and Timothy Paul Jones have already devoted one entire episode of this podcast to love. That was when they discussed Foreigner’s 1984 hit “I Want to Know What Love Is.” 
But Garrick and Timothy are far too full of love to fit all of their feelings about love into a single episode. 
That’s why they’re joining forces with Huey Lewis to talk about love again in this special Three Chords and the Truth episode of The Apologetics Podcast.
Along the way, the dynamic duo discusses the history of Huey Lewis and the News, Augustine of Hippo, the Trinity, and the widespread contemporary declaration that “love is love.” 
In the end, they discover that, unless the nature of God defines love, “love” distorts something good that God designed for our joy and for his glory. Also, “American Express” was probably a better name for Huey Lewis’ band than “the News.” If only they had spelled it as “Ämërïcän Ëxprëss,” they might have been successful in keeping their original name as well as avoiding being sued by the credit-card company of the same name.
In this installment of “Behind the Covers,” Garrick and Timothy take a look at a song that was popularized on the Grand Funk Railroad album “All the Girls in the World Beware!!!,” in which Grand Funk Railroad outdid Van Halen’s song “Everybody Wants Some!!” by adding three exclamation points instead of stopping at a mere two. If only they had added umlauts as well, the title would have been perfect, because we all know that “ëvërÿbödÿ wänts sömë!!” more umlauts in their life.
The cover song this time is “Some Kind of Wonderful,” and your intrepid cohosts agree that Rod Stewart’s cover version isn’t wonderful at all.
ABOUT HOSTS
Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy.
Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison.
LINKS TO CLICK
Some Kind of Wonderful (Soul Brothers Six, 1967)
Some King of Wonderful (Grand Funk Railroad, 1974)
Some Kind of Wonderful (Huey Lewis & The News, 1994)
Some Kind of Wonderful (Rod Stewart, 2021)
Some Kind of Wonderful (Little Milton, 1999)
Some Kind of Wonderful (Joss Stone, 2003)
Some Kind of Wonderful (Mark Farner, 1992)
The Power of Love (Huey Lewis & The News, 1985)
Patreon Support
theapologeticspodcast.com
Urban Ministry Podcast
CLOSING CREDITS
Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

Abortion, Apologetics, and the End of Roe v. Wade, with Garrick Bailey and Timothy Paul Jones

“The Constitution does not confer a right to abortion; Roe and Casey are overruled; and the authority to regulate abortion is returned to the people and their elected representatives.”
With those words, the United States Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, the 1973 decision that declared a federal constitutional right to abortion.
So what now?
How should churches respond to this ruling? How can this decision be turned into an opportunity for apologetics? And what's been the historical perspective of Christians when it comes to abortion?
That's what Garrick Bailey and Timothy Paul Jones discuss in this special episode of The Apologetics Podcast. What you'll discover as you listen is that Christians have been talking about abortion far longer than you may have imagined. Abortion has even shown up in apologetics conversations, although probably not in the ways that you might expect. This leads the dynamic duo into a discussion of a song by one of Timothy's favorite bands, King's X; the song is "Legal Kill."
In the Raiders of Church History segment, Garrick finds a long-lost saint's tongue and sends it into battle against a crusader's lance. The result is a tongue piercing, which is something that your intrepid cohosts never imagined might happen on this particular podcast. Also, “Pïërcïng Töngüës” should be the name of an a capella heavy metal band.
ABOUT HOSTS
Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy.
Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison.
LINKS TO CLICK
De Anima (Tertullian of Carthage)
“Exodus,” in Expositor’s Bible Commentary: Revised Edition: Genesis—Leviticus (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 2008), 492–493. (Walter Kaiser)
Legal Kill (King's X)
Patreon Support
theapologeticspodcast.com
Urban Ministry Podcast
CLOSING CREDITS
Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

What If Our Bibles Don’t Have the Right Words? with Michael Kruger

If you like talking about ancient objects, this episode is for you. And, by "ancient objects," we don't mean things like typewriters, printed telephone books, and those AOL compact discs that used to show up in your mailbox every week. 
We're talking about items that are really old. 
Like, older than Keith Richards and Willie Nelson.
And so, if ancient artifacts are your thing, join Garrick Bailey and Timothy Paul Jones on this exhilarating episode in which the dynamic duo discusses ancient texts, ancient abbreviations, ancient chains … and an ancient pelvis.
Yes, an ancient pelvis.
The episode begins with a battle between the chains of St. Paul and the pelvis of St. Nicholas—and by “St. Nicholas” we mean St. Nicholas of Myra, better known as “Santa Claus.” As it turns out, the pelvis of St. Nicholas is no longer connected to the rest of St. Nicholas, and one portion of his pelvis is thought by some to reside in a relic repository in the Chicago suburb of Morton Grove, Illinois.
In Raiders of Church History, Timothy brings this intimate artifact into battle, certain that nothing could possibly defeat the pelvis of Santa Claus. (Also: “St. Nïck's Pëlvïs” would be a great name for a punk band that plays Christmas carols.) But then Garrick brings the chains that bound St. Paul, and the battle between your intrepid cohosts spins completely out of control. 
And that’s when Dr. Michael Kruger shows up to save the day.
That’s right: Michael Kruger, president of the Charlotte campus of the Reformed Theological Seminary and preeminent scholar of early Christianity, joins us to talk about the reliability of the copies and the canon of the New Testament. While considering the ancient text of the New Testament, Dr. Kruger deals with some of the claims made by Bart Ehrman in his best-selling books Forged: Writing in the Name of God—Why the Bible's Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are and Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why. Along the way, we also learn about an ancient pattern of abbreviations known as “nomina sacra” and the greatness of U2.
ABOUT GUEST AND HOSTS
Michael J. Kruger, Ph.D., serves as the President and Samuel C. Patterson Professor of New Testament and Early Christianity at the Charlotte campus of Reformed Theological Seminary. He earned his Ph.D. under one of the world’s leading text-critical scholars, Larry W. Hurtado, at the University of Edinburgh. Dr. Kruger is one of the world's leading scholars of the origins of the New Testament and the development of the New Testament canon. He is the author of twelve books, most recently Christianity at the Crossroads: How the Second Century Shaped the Future of the Church (2018).
Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy. 
Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison.
LINKS TO CLICK
Patreon Support theapologeticspodcast.com Urban Ministry Podcast
CLOSING CREDITS
Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

Doubt, Deconstruction, and an Apologetic of Kindness, with Keith Plummer

Welcome to the Very Kind Episode of The Apologetics Podcast!
Of course, almost every episode of this podcast is kind of kind, mostly because Garrick is just that kind of person. But this episode is the kind of episode that’s particularly kind, because we’re joined by Dr. Keith Plummer, who is widely renowned for his special kind of kindness.
Even the battle between your intrepid cohosts in Indiana, Jones, and the Raiders of Church History turns out to be cuddly and kind. Timothy puts a Pomeranian puppy named “Belferlein” into battle against Garrick's weapon of choice, which is a belt that once belonged to Mary the mother of Jesus. In the end, the belt is turned into a leash, and the dynamic duo decides to stop fighting and cuddle the puppy instead. That’s when Dr. Keith Plummer shows up, and things get even kinder.
Dr. Plummer is one of the contributors to a very kind recent book entitled Before You Lose Your Faith: Deconstructing Doubt in the Church (The Gospel Coalition, 2021). In this episode, he is kind enough to talk to us about social media, deconversion, doubt, and the Doobie Brothers—a band whose 1976 hit “What a Fool Believes” includes the line “You don't know my kind.” All in all, this episode of The Apologetics Podcast is a one-of-a-kind experience in which even Timothy is kind, which is kind of rare. Also, “Bëlfërlëïn” would be the perfect name for a German industrial metal band, as long as they're a very kind band that likes dogs.
ABOUT GUEST AND HOSTS
Keith Plummer, Ph.D., is the Professor of Theology and Dean of the School of Divinity at Cairn University in Pennsylvania. He has a Ph.D. in Systematic Theology from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, where he also earned his M.Div. in Apologetics. Follow Dr. Plummer at @XianMind.
Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy.
Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison.
LINKS TO CLICK
Before You Lose Your Faith: Deconstructing Doubt in the Church (The Gospel Coalition, 2021)
The Digital Public Square: Christian Ethics in a Technological Society (B&H Academic, 2023)
25 Basic Bible Studies: Including Two Contents, Two Realities (Francis Schaeffer)
Patreon Support
theapologeticspodcast.com
Urban Ministry Podcast
CLOSING CREDITS
Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

Did the Council of Nicaea Choose the Books of the Bible? with Garrick Bailey and Timothy Paul Jones

The books of the Bible were selected in the year 325 at the Council of Nicaea, right?
That's what a lot of Christians seem to think.
But is this story true? 
If it isn't true, how did the tale of a council that created the canon begin in the first place?
Those are the questions that your intrepid cohosts Garrick Bailey and Timothy Paul Jones explore in this episode.
As with almost every explanation that Garrick and Timothy give, the answer turns out to be far weirder than you ever imagined. It involves a prayer, a table, and books that fall miraculously onto the floor. Also, it entails Timothy speaking these words to Garrick, which also could have appeared in a fortune cookie if Garrick and Timothy were writing the fortunes in the cookies: "The canon of Scripture and the Council of Nicaea are like Elvis Presley and 'American Pie,' dude."
The only way to comprehend Timothy's cryptic proclamation is to listen to this podcast episode in its entirety.
Also in this episode, the dynamic duo throws the bones of Edward the Confessor into battle against a creature that you probably thought existed only in Dumbledore's office, even though it's described in an early Christian sermon.  Without revealing the outcome, let's just say that Edward the Confessor stays dead and that early Christians believed in some zoological phenomena that you probably don't.
Also, why hasn't anyone ever named their band "Phöënïx"?
 
ABOUT HOSTS
Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy. Follow Dr. Jones at @DrTimothyPJones.
 
Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison.
 
LINKS TO CLICK
How We Got the Bible (book by Timothy Paul Jones)
Patreon Support
theapologeticspodcast.com
Urban Ministry Podcast
 
CLOSING CREDITS
Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).